5 Comments

  1. evans
    03/16/2011 @ 1:12 pm

    i have read God’s plan for man. i don’t believe everything in it either… maybe a little more than you. there are numerous things that you’ve stated, in all of the things i’ve read on this website, that are debatable. does it really matter to you that much? i almost feel hate coming through the computer from you towards this man, whom i’m sure you’ve never met & probably never talked to. i am not going to go on about that, however. i do think you believe in once saved always saved. i believe that truths from the bible have to go from genisis to revalation! you can not take a verse out of context from one book. It has to be compared throughout & be proved! So, what do you do about Jesus telling the churches in revalation to beware or He will remove their candle or star or blot their names from the book of life? This is just a simple question. i don’t ask it out of vengence towards mr. dake. i have a young man at work that sounds similar to your views. he could not answer this & other questions that we’ve discussed. I would like to know what you think of the gifts of the spirit, & who the Sons of God were? i also think that it is funny that your math question adds up to 11!

    Reply

    • admin
      05/30/2011 @ 9:36 pm

      Hi Evans:

      Thanks for the comment.

      Yes there are somethings I agree with in ‘God’s Plan for Man’ by Dake. I am afraid though that there is so much twisted and dangerous theology mixed in with some of these good teachings that it will lead Christians astray. This is how satan works though: like when he tempted Jesus to throw Himself down. He quoted a part of the Scripture, but distorted its meaning and application.

      I don’t ‘hate’ Dake. Since I am a Christian though, I am very concerned that his false teachings will lead others into error and distortion. I might for example strongly disagree with the teachings of the Jehovah Witnesses, but I would still try to reach them for Christ. The purpose of my articles on Dake are not to attack Dake, but to either help prevent Christians from becoming involved with his cultic theology, or help reach those who are involved and believe his message. Even if a person continues to agree and believe what Dake teaches, at least they may have a better understanding that Dake disagrees with every major and most minor teachings and beliefs the church has believed in for thousands of years. His theology is much more dangerous than Islam, Mormonism, and the Jehovah Witnesses since he is often accepted within charismatic/pentecostal churchs without really understanding what he believes.

      On a different note, to answer your other questions: I used to believe in the perseverance of the saints. I believe in conditional security. My theology could probably be classified as mostly Pentecostal (I graduated from the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary. I also graduated with an STM from Liberty Seminary – Liberty University). I strongly believe in the gifts of the spirit and that it is possible for a believer to reject Christ and return to a life of sin… resulting in their apostasy and eventually being sent to hell if they do not repent (God will draw and attempt to convict them, but they can still choose to reject and rebell against God).

      I’ve never like the term ‘lose their salvation.’ To say someone can ‘lose their salvation’ would seem to imply it could be gone/lost without their knowing it or choosing it (by accident). I prefer to say that it is possible for someone to ‘reject their salvation’ and to choose a life of sin over Christ.

      I believe that true Christians can differ on doctrines like eternal vs. conditional salvation and still be Christians. Christians differ over when the rapture will occur… but this is not a doctrine that I believe will impact anyone’s salvation (you can be saved whether you are pretrib, midtrib, prewrath, or postrib… or don’t even believe in the rapture!). Dake though distorts beliefs that are essential to salvation. We for example must believe on Jesus to be saved. Dake’s version of ‘Jesus’ is a distortion and false immitation … not the real God.

      Matthew

      Reply

  2. Terry R.Wilson
    05/30/2011 @ 9:39 pm

    Matthew, greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

    After reading the comment posted above by evans, I felt compelled to write. (Please feel free to not post this if it’s length is beyond what you allow and consider it simply personal correspondence).

    I have heard, over and over again, how the works of Finis Dake may contain some irregular statements, but we simply need to be discerning as we read anything other than Scripture itself as we attempt to study our faith. This sounds reasonable enough and, perhaps in other times, I might have believed it to be sufficient advise in warning of possible error. Unfortunately, the attitudes within the church have been steadily changing as to how they teach and communicate the faith once for all delivered to the saints and have left those who seek the truth of Scripture almost entirely on their own in the area of historic, doctrinal beliefs. Without this emphasis on a solid, biblical foundation of doctrines such as the Trinity, the nature of God, the nature of Christ, the person of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace through faith (which remains true in my arminian position), individuals within the church are left to “discover” for themselves what our language in these matters fails to communicate simply.

    It is this failure of the church in matters of communicating correct doctrine that have raised entire generations in a confused theology and set them adrift in the sea of theological opinions to fend for themselves. It really would be like taking a child and placing before him different things to eat. You can tell him that some of the food is good and profitable and remind him that he needs to be careful to not select the poisonous bits. Without proper training, however, in what the good food consists of and how to differentiate it from the deadly parts, I fear we will return to a now lifeless child who mistook a bad mushroom for one that is good.

    Before any think I simply have little faith in the Holy Spirit to correct us and lead us into all truth, allow me to share a short story.

    My father and mother had come to visit me for a couple of months back in 1985. After several days with me, my father came to me and said, “You are different than before.” I asked what that might mean and he replied, “You are softer now – more gentle. What has changed you?” I went on to explain that I had simply been spending a lot of time with Jesus, my Savior. Any change for the better that might be evident was simply the work of the Holy Spirit in creating within me a new heart. My dad then said that he wanted what I had. I asked him if he would like to receive it right then, at that moment. Looking a bit surprised, he came and kneeled at my feet and, with tears in his eyes, said he wanted to receive Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

    At that moment, I knew my father had become “born again”, a new creation in Christ. I spent time with him before he left to go home and taught him as I could. Not long after, he began to surround himself with teachers that held to much of what is espoused from Finis Dake. I wish I had known then what I know now. In just a couple of years, my father began sending me Dake’s books: “God’s Plan for Man”, “Revelation, Expounded” and, of course, the “Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible.”

    As I began to look through the Dake material, almost immediately I found several major issues at odds with orthodox Christian doctrine. I searched further to confirm my findings and was forced to come to the conclusion that the errors contained within Dake’s teaching placed him squarely and firmly outside the Christian church. Of course, I tried to speak with my father as gently as I could of the errors found. He would simply become quiet and suggest that we should not dispute doctrines that “don’t matter.” When I inquired of his concept of the Trinity, he defended the Dake teaching that God is three separate persons (just like three separate angels or men), that live on a planet in the northern part of the universe and travel about as any one of us would and are only “One” in their “purpose” – not one in number.

    In the almost 17 years my father persisted in these teachings, not one pastor, minister, church member or elder ever pointed out the error of my father’s doctrine (and, yes, he made known what he believed, as well as the source of his theology being Dake). It’s true that we each are held accountable for what we believe individually and, knowing this, I cannot fully place the burdon of my father’s heretical beliefs entirely upon the church (or church’s) he attended. Ultimately, we must each stand before the Lord and give account. But, knowing this doesn’t really help me to understand how my father could attend churches with substantially orthodox statements of faith for all those years and never be corrected for believing things which are “another gospel.” My father passed away in 2002 and I live each day knowing I have no assurance that I will ever see him again.

    Did the Holy Spirit fail him? Of course not! My voice may have been the only one who spoke the truth in all those years, but I know it was sufficient to convey that truth. His choice to follow the teachings of Finis Dake, rather than sound, biblical and orthodox teachings, were a choice he made himself. None of us are forced to accept the gospel. No, God did not fail my father anymore than He fails in the lives of Mormons, Jehovah’s Witness’ or New Age adherents. We each are offered a choice and must take responsibility for it. I just wish there had been others who would have joined me in warning him.

    Rather than think that my father is simply an isolated instance and the exception to the rule, I ask you to indulge one more story.

    I have been attending my church for almost 3 years now. The pastor and I have developed what I can only call a deep appreciation for each other and a friendship as brothers in Christ. I have been privileged to be used as part of the teaching staff and have tried to bring more depth to the doctrinal understanding held by the members of the faith we share. During my time here, I have made quite a point of discussing the doctrines of Finis Dake with the pastor. He was really quite unaware of how depraved Dake’s teaching was, but assured me that he and his staff certainly would not teach such things.

    It was just late last year (Oct, 2010), after a Wednesday bible study, that I was approached by the worship leader and brought into a conversation about the Trinity. (I wish he had been present when I taught on this very subject months earlier, but God’s timing is not always ours). He explained that he believed that three persons, each with their own spirit body, soul and spirit, lived on a material planet called Heaven. (Alarm bells are now resounding within my head so loudly I can feel the blood throbbing in my veins!) He went on to explain that he felt that, “Dake’s teaching on the matter made the most sense” to him. I told him he really needed to share this thought with the pastor so that he might be provided a correct understanding of the nature of God. He rejected my suggestion.

    (Remember – this is the worship leader in my church! He is leading worship to the three “gods” on planet Heaven each week!)

    Of course, I spoke with the pastor about the issue and, while I really never was totally secure in the knowledge that all was set to rights, I was told it was and not to worry.

    Then, just 4 weeks ago, a woman in the church (who also happens to be the mother of the associate pastor), apparently went to the pastor with some concerns about me. What concerns might those have been? Well, I was told she really may not like my position on Finis Dake and she had held her opinion for quite some time, but now she could no longer remain silent. (For the record, I had not mentioned the teachings of Finis Dake for over a year in any bible study).

    Great – now it’s the associate pastor’s mother who would like to be offended that I called Dake a heretic to the Christian faith. If her son doesn’t subscribe to Dake’s teaching, then I certainly assume he would correct her. As he is apparently not providing that correction, I can only assume he is in agreement with Dake as well. I feel surrounded and surprised. How did all this get past the pastor?

    The pastor said we should all get together and discuss the issues (to which I agreed), but no meeting was ever set up. Two weeks ago, I withdrew from attending my church. Seems rather odd that I would loose my church fellowship, place of worship and bible study and the pastor I had learned to call my friend – all over the doctrines of a man who had been excommunicated from the denomination I attend. I still hope there might be reconciliation with the pastor, but I suppose time will tell.

    My point here is simply this – There is simply no acceptable amount of false teaching that can be tolerated within the church, because once it takes hold, it spreads like a weed in the garden. Am I naive enough to think that any church will be free from all error? Not really any more than I believe my garden will be weed free. But, that doesn’t mean we simply stop picking weeds and decide to make them a part of our garden as if they belonged. Can some error exist in the lives of truly committed Christians who are saved and love the Lord? Absolutely. However, when we stop instructing believers in the doctrinal imperatives of Christianity and, then, allow teachers in our midst who openly defy those same doctrines, then the church has stopped being “the church” – the called out ones, those separated to be holy, the bride of Christ.

    I certainly could have just said how dangerous even a little error can be and not to allow it. Somehow, I didn’t feel it would get the point across as well. Sorry for the length here and, as I mentioned, if you would rather not post long bits, I understand completely.

    Thanks for your ministry as I am encouraged by your work.

    May the grace of our Lord be with you always as you continue to fight the good fight and bring light into the dark places.

    Terry R. Wilson

    PS – Yes, I am the same Terry R Wilson whose article entitled, “Dake’s Dubious Doctrine”, you re-posted on your site. I hope it has been helpful to yourself and others.

    Reply

    • admin
      05/30/2011 @ 9:40 pm

      Hi Terry:

      Thank you very much for posting. Your comment is awesome.

      I would like to add this comment also to your article on this site (sort of an extension/supplemental).

      I am planning on writing some extended articles dealing with Dake and focused on specific doctrines (such as the Trinity) but so far have not found the time (I have the quotes and research done, I just need to start writing). I had purchased a domain name to just focus on Dake (http://thedakebible.com) but having his articles here seems to get more traffic to the Dake articles than a separate site.

      I still cannot understand how ‘The Church’ takes a stand agains cults like the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses, but allows theology that is just as bad (and more damaging I think) right into the church through Dakes Bible and other books. It’s very sad. I’m glad there are believers like you who have taken the time to research and understand the issues and write so that others can find the truth and reject unbiblical theology.

      Thanks again,

      In Christ,
      Matthew

      Reply

  3. Terry R.Wilson
    05/30/2011 @ 9:41 pm

    Matthew,

    Finis Dake is indeed the capstone of error in the pentecostal church. It’s no wonder the enemy has built fortified walls round and about the doctrines of Finis Dake. Should these walls ever fail, and the darkness within exposed, think of all who would be crushed by the stones! There are wolves in our midst and the sheep are being led astray by some of the largest and most powerful names in contemporary “Christianity.” Expose this one man for the heretic he is and all that defend or encourage his materials become exposed as well.

    Feel free to use the email I provided to contact me anytime. If I have anything that might prove useful to you in your efforts, you are welcome to it. I may have some correspondence of interest to you.

    Take good care,

    Terry

    Reply

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